If you’re working at the intersection of healthcare and gamification and looking for a goldmine of insight, then this episode of the Health Points podcast is not one to skip. Series 3 Episode 5 features Jamie Bankhead, CEO of Konglomerate Games—a studio doing more than just building engaging games; they’re reimagining how we influence real-world health outcomes through strategic game design.
What sets this episode apart is its focus on games not just for patients, but for professionals and policymakers. Jamie shares how Conglomerate Games develops experiences that influence systems—not just individuals. If you’ve been trying to figure out how to go beyond points and badges and build something with genuine impact, Jamie’s insights will hit home.
Key Takeaways
1. Design for Impact, Not Just Interaction
Jamie walks us through Playbox Glasgow, a game designed to influence public health policy by simulating how food environments affect obesity. You'll learn how to design games for users who aren’t gamers—like policymakers—using accessible mechanics and clear, data-driven feedback loops.
2. Calibrate for Real People
In Cape Breeze, a physiotherapy game for children with cystic fibrosis (CF), you’ll hear how the team used breath-controlled input devices and adaptive gameplay to personalize the experience. It’s a masterclass in dynamic difficulty balancing and user-centered design—especially when your players face daily physical challenges.
3. Collaboration and Community Building Through Games
Even in conditions like CF, where patients can’t meet in person, Jamie shares how digital gameplay can foster a sense of connection. Expect thoughtful strategies on how to spark community, empathy, and even joy, especially in therapeutic settings.
4. What Not To Do: The Pitfalls of Gamification as Buzzword
Jamie doesn’t shy away from critique. He calls out the overuse of “gamification” as a catch-all term, especially when it's reduced to shallow mechanics like quizzes and timers. Instead, he advocates for meaningful play—games that do more than distract—they transform.
5. Designing for Everyone—from children to seniors
From arcade-style installations in public parks to feel-good explorations of Scottish culture, Jamie’s approach is deeply inclusive. Whether you design for classrooms, clinics, or cities, you’ll come away with ideas for weaving playful learning into everyday spaces.
This is a conversation packed with substance for anyone striving to build serious games that aren’t just well-intentioned—but well-executed. So if you're ready to think beyond the leaderboard and start building health games that really change lives, this episode is your blueprint.
You can listen to this episode below:
Episode Transcript:
Ben
Everyone and welcome to another episode of Health Points. I'm your host, Ben, and with me is my co-host Pete.
Pete
Great to be here today.
Ben
And with us today is Jamie Bankhead, who is the CEO of conglomerate games, a video games company specialising in healthcare and other serious games development. They started with the project Cape Breeze, designed to encourage children with cystic fibrosis to do their daily physiotherapy routines, and in the last few years we've expanded into other areas of healthcare and education. Jamie is fantastic to have you on the show today.
Jamie
Hi, thanks for having me and. Thanks for that. Intro.
Ben
Well, let's start. Let's find out a bit more about you. Can you tell us about your background and games design?
Jamie
Sure. Yeah, of course. So in case you couldn't tell from my accent, I'm from Northern Ireland originally. And when I was at school, I was looking at different university courses that I could maybe take on. Unfortunately, there wasn't really anything in Northern Ireland that kind of does any games. It might have changed now, but back when I was looking, unfortunately there wasn't. And so I went to Abertay in Scotland to study computer games applications development. I'd heard I'd heard it was a really good course. It was apparently the 1st in Europe and and this course kind of was a bit of an all rounder. It had like an audio module, a games design module. And the third year, there was this professional project that you got to work with someone in the industry. So it seemed like a really. Well-rounded course. And through it and then through my honours project, where I looked at at developing a speech therapy game for people with Parkinson's, I kind of got more into the series game side of things and actually founded the Conglomerate games whilst at university and we've been going for five years now since then.
Ben
Incredible stuff. I'm sure there are more degree courses now that offer game design and game engineering, but what? What got you interested? What was were you a gamer when you were younger? What got you excited about looking at games and particularly now with serious games and how games can be used as an intervention?
Jamie
Yeah, I I I loved playing games my whole life. My dad was a big gamer growing up, so I lot played a lot of strategy, strategy games with him. The classic Age of Empires, Age, mythology, things like that and and I really disliked how much. The the media gave games a a very bad rap. I really thought it was no different to people watching TV as a pastime, but people love games and I thought we could use that passion for for something something good. I wanted to help people through through my work and through games and. I I kind of saw Western at university that there wasn't really anyone doing it as much as I wanted. There was definitely some companies that did the odd project, but it felt like that was more of a side thing. They they had their main stuff and then they maybe did the odd project in the healthcare or education. Space. So I felt be the be the the the difference try and fill that gap.
Ben
Completely agree, completely understand similar love computer games when growing up saw them as a way for me to. Socialise, expand my views and thoughts and problem solving skills. And yeah, as I've gotten older and realised how games can be used for for many more purposes I think we've been on similar journeys in that case. In that case, let's digging a bit deeper. So you've worked on a number of projects, but three in particular quarter I first, you can test about Playbox Glasgow and this is aimed at reducing obesity, is it?
Jamie
Yeah. So this was a really interesting project. We were, we were working with NASA. They're the UK's Innovation Agency for Social Change and they have this overarching goal of reducing obesity by half, by 20-30 in the UK, which is a huge goal. I'm not sure if you're aware, but 64% of people in the UK. Are considered overweight or obese right now, which is way, way. High. So they were trying to, they were exploring a whole range of options as to how they can tackle tackle this this problem. So they wanted to come to us to explore the idea of what are known as food environments.
So food environments are essentially. Where you can access food. So. If you imagine you're living on the street and there's only takeaways on that street that, like there's only McDonald's or or chippies, that is your, that is your food environment. If that's the, it's the cheapest and most successful food, it's it's it's obvious to me at least that that is kind of how you're going to eat is what's most successful and what's cheapest too. So if there's no. Cheap, healthy supermarkets in your area, obviously you're not going to have a cheap and healthy diet so.
What we wanted to do with Aster was basically build a game that targeted the policymakers themselves. So the people in charge of of these decisions, as to, uh, what, what, what's actually being taxed and what's what's going where in terms of a city planning so that we can try and show them what, how much of an impact the food. Environment has on a person because unfortunately a lot of policies are really targeting individuals as to how you should be eating better rather than we should look at the environment itself. So we basically built a game that brought in a whole bunch of real world data that we got from. Faster so that a policymaker could play around with things in a little play box, hence the name of what happens if you implement a sugar tax, or what happens if you give food subsidies and things like that? So that and then we're using real world data trying to simulate this for an area of Glasgow. To try to try and encourage policymakers to shift their focus from individuals to that that food environment.
Ben
I think it's really interesting how, who the game is designed as the core user group. Previous episode with Sam Knowles was actually designing games, but not for not for the ultimate end user. People living with their health condition, but actually the professionals, the teams who were involved in patient engagement for drug design. And so the use of games to educate and stimulate conversations between professionals, they change their working habits to ultimately impact their health condition, and we don't actually speak to, to many game designers or or game creators that do that. How much more challenging or not is it to to reach that target audience as policymakers, as opposed to people living with a condition to look at a way around behaviour change and education?
Jamie
I think it's. A. It's a really interesting space, particularly with this project and and typically others that we've we've worked in. You're making a game for people that don't play games now that can be the case for if you're making a game directly for the people with condition. But. If you're doing it. For maybe not. Not the end users themselves, but the the people who are kind of above them are working with them. We found that we're we're making a game for people who haven't played games or who might not even be technologically literate at all. So we had to make it really accessible.
We didn't find too much of a problem. In terms of. Or a difference rather in making a game for them versus the end user. But aside from the accessibility standpoint, and to be honest, we look at accessibility for all of our games anyway. So we thought of it more of an interesting design problem than than actually a a real challenge. It was just about framing it from from a different point of view.
Ben
In that case, be great to learn a bit more around around the gameplay itself, but also what process did you go through around designing the game and what is your internal approach to game design and game mechanics generally.
Jamie
So the the game itself is. It's a very simulation game in that you're you're dropped into kind of a an RTS or a strategy game kind of viewpoint of of the City of Glasgow and and you as the policymaker have to implement different policies that affect the food. Environment, like I said, whether that's a sugar tax on on food, food subsidies. Or sorry, sugar tax or fits subsidies and things like that. And then you get to see the kind of simulation play out in real time and you can see what impacts you can have on these different areas of Glasgow. And this game went through a bunch of different iterations. So initially we had it way more SIM city like where you were actually placing buildings and you were like deciding does it should detect way go here should a supermarket go here and you could play around with the prices of each of them. That they were charging for their food. But we realised that policymakers found this a bit too complicated and we wanted to kind of simplify it right down to the core core idea. And that was the policies themselves and how you can have the most impact with with the least amount of of. Problems really. And and these these are things that you can test in the real world. Like you couldn't exactly test a a 50% sugar tax easily. So we're trying to give give people the tools to play around with it and. And that came through this iteration process and we try and do that with all of our games. So that's working with the stakeholders directly and and find exactly what they want and what what they want to achieve. And then iterating on that through prototypes and through feedback sessions with them to to make sure we're we're solving the right. Problem can I?
Pete
Ask how did you represent the feedback to the? Players like what was the impact of their choices? How did that add to the design?
Jamie
So. So with this game in particular, the feedback to the players was we were trying to frame it in a way that they would understand. So a lot of graphs and visual representations, because like we said earlier, like as I mentioned earlier, they weren't particularly big gamers. So things that you may be seeing games wouldn't have translated super well. We're trying to think of, OK, well, what will they have seen? They've seen things like Excel and and spreadsheets. So how can we take stuff that they're used to and put it into the game? So that's really clear visualisations of graphs and data like that and trying to just make it really usable and friendly for them to interpret.
Ben
So in that case, what is next? Or what else have you been working on? Because you've got a bit of a portfolio of what you've been working on developing kind of what are you working on right now or what other games have you created?
Jamie
Yeah. So we we've done a whole bunch of games since that that first project. And and right now we're we're working on something really interesting for us and that's uh, it's less of a healthcare project, it's more. National and more entertainment focused and that's a game set in the the Highlands of Scotland and and it's more of an indie feel good adventure game where you're kind of exploring the connection of culture and nature and and we're using a lot of real world a real real world nature. Information as well as incorporating Scottish Gaelic, things like that. And this is a bit different to our other projects as this is very consumer focused. This one we want to kind of draw on the the idea. Of. You learn, you learn about the Renaissance playing Assassin's Creed, for example, way less gamification and way more playful learning. And that's kind of the project we're we're working on right now. As well as a few few others that unfortunately I can't. I can't talk about too much.
Ben
In that case, going back to your approach to the game design, sit around a table as a team. Just throw ideas out there, or do you have a bit of a systematic process no matter. Which game you're going in to create?
Jamie
Yeah, usually we're working backwards, so usually there's a problem that we're trying to solve, whether that's adherence to physiotherapy routines, whether that's. A barrier to learning we're we're kind of working backwards from that and and thinking, OK, how do we solve this? How do we teach this specific thing? How do we get this specific exercise done? And and through that we we work with experts almost always. Uh, I can't think of the project we haven't. So we're we're game developers, we're not physiotherapists, we're not teachers. So we're working with people who who actually knowledgeable in this space. So for our physiotherapy games, we're working with experts in. Cystic fibrosis or whatever. Whatever we're working on specifically and then.
As important as that, we're working with the people that you're actually making the game for. So with NASA, that was the policymakers making sure we're testing it with them with Keith Breeze. That's our the actual sufferers of cystic fibrosis is the game fun for them. Super important. And that combination of working with experts and working with end users, it's kind of we have to start from almost all of our games just so that we know exactly what we're making and that's really clear what we're trying to achieve.
Ben
You've talked for a few different games now, Jamie. How do you track the impact of what you're creating? And do you have any kind of interesting stats and impact factors?
Jamie
Yeah. I think first one I'd need to break down Cape Breeze a bit more because I think it's the one that it's really clear we had so much data around this project. So it was really clear the impact that we had, but that's that's the main thing. Each of our games has such different impact statistics like how do you measure. The impact of a physiotherapy game versus a cultural game that's just about educating people on the culture of an area. So we have to really go project by project with categories. So it was our physiotherapy game around. Sufferers of cystic fibrosis. To do their daily breathing routines. They're really boring breathing exercises. They can take up to an hour every single day, so if you can imagine if if either of you have kids, getting them to sit still for an hour, just breathing and these are really long, slow breaths. You can imagine how heart that is. So what we want to do with that game was make it way more fun, make it make it the the efficacy better. So they're actually doing it. Happily. And given that immediate feedback so that they get better at it, but with that there is very clear if we can keep up the adherence, that's a really positive impact if we can. Have high efficacy. That would be great as well as the kids just want to do it without being prompted by the parents. So that was part of a clinical trial with UCL and Microsoft and and through that clinical trial we were able to get really clear impact that the the breasts that they were doing whilst they played our game were considered to be 80% high quality breaths, which was really good when looking at the comparison to no games or just the normal. Why they were doing it. So we had that staff, 80%, that's fantastic as well as they're here and stuff that got out of it as well that they actually were wanting to play the game. And even anecdotally, a lot of the parents are saying we don't have to fight our kids. So it was just, it was really, really nice. To hear and. We've we've had loads of other really nice stories out of it as well, where on a different project that was also healthcare related. We were working with a bunch of kids. We were doing a workshop and we were asking them how. What their favourite games were? And unbeknownst to us, there was a kid on the call who'd been on the clinical trial. And when we asked her, like. Oh, what was your favourite? Game she's like, oh, there's this game, Cape Breeze that we played. We just all first I laughed like thought she was joking. So that was really nice, that she clearly had an impact, whether for their health, it kind of almost didn't matter at that point. As long as they they like enjoyed it and. We're actually doing their routines. Just because cystic fibrosis has such a such a big impact on the sufferers.
Pete
It's amazing impact. Can you tell us a little bit about Cape Breeze? You know, what's the game that makes it?
Jamie
Fun. Yeah. So with Cap Breeze, you're we were trying to get them to do these, as I said, boring breathing exercises. Long, slow breaths, so the whole game has to centre around these long, slow breaths and and with our game. Thankfully we were working with UCL, had great team of physiotherapists, there, specialised insistent purposes, and Microsoft, who had developed this prototype. Device that could attach to the the physiotherapy device and UCL took that prototype and developed it further so that we were actually actually able to measure the the input via breath. So we took that and essentially used as a controller. So you played the game with your breath and we were able to do a lot of fun things with that where you were playing the game. Complete your physiotherapy exercise. So it was all focused on on that long, slow breath and all the gameplay revolved around that the the music revolved around that, the scoring, absolutely everything. And it was a series of replayable mini games, because if you think about it, the routine had to be played every single day. So replayability was key and. We figured we couldn't really do like a linear story game or anything like that. It had to be something super, super replayable and fun. So we went down the mini game route, so it was a bunch of different. Mini games you. Could play all encouraging these long, slow breaths that we were. Being advised on by the the physiotherapists.
Pete
I think you've really mentioned something really important here as well, which is that quite often you need a physical input device, a way to gather the data that relates to the behaviour you want to change. So in this case, that device that adds on to the cystic fibrosis treatment equipment, can you do a game? For them, that doesn't involve that. How important is it? Do you think that we have something that measures the right data related to the activity we want to change or improve?
Jamie
I think you're you're missing out on a lot of what you can get from a game. If you don't have it. So with the breadth data, we're actually able to provide immediate feedback, which is essential for learning the proper technique, because without that they need they need someone in person telling them. That's right, that's wrong. But with the feedback that we could give them, they were able to know. Right then and there, they're doing it slightly wrong or not. So that was super important. Also, we were able to track a bunch of data so that we could tell them like, hey, you're getting better at this or you should maybe try a little harder. And we could adjust the game to be. Set to their specific circumstances, so obviously US 3 will have completely different lung capabilities to a child to some of the abuses they might be having a good or a bad day, but because we can actually measure their their stuff, their stuff directly with the, we're able to adjust the game dynamically, which is super important. So we could scale the game. Everyone was on level playing field. I wouldn't be able to get a much higher score than some of the sclerosis because of that, which we find really important. And you couldn't get that without having that device or that input. There are some games and some apps that have these like breathing routines, and you're just breathing along, but there's no direct feedback. They can't tell. I remember the old Nintendo DS's. You had to breathe into the like the microphone, I think, but clearly they're not as good. And there's a reason why that has kind of dropped off and. Because it just wasn't as as accurate as as it needed to be. So you get a lot more out of.
Pete
It I'd say that's great. I agree. And I like your take on it as well. And it actually reminds me of when I was looking at your website, one of the other games that I was intrigued by was Wales Song Park. Where I feel like. If you tell us a bit about it, but I think you've got people to go to somewhere. In order to get that same impact.
Jamie
Yeah. So this this was a really fun project in in Dundee where we're based, there's been a renovation at the waterfront by the river. So part of that renovation was the the building of this park called Whalesong Park. And in it, there's a big statue of a big whale. There's a lot of history in the city about about the whaling and nautical heritage of the city and and they wanted to also kind of pay tribute to the the gaming history of the city as well. So they wanted to build an arcade machine outdoors in. In this new park, to encourage people to come and play and kind of experience experience this. Thing. Uhm, so it was a UH-2 metre by 1 metre uh rectangular pillar with four screens on each side. So a big monolith. And at the front of each of these screens was a a podium that had a a controller on it to play. So the game essentially wrapped around this monolith. And would be played on all four sides of this, this this big arcade cabinet. And we were developing the game to that was going to be playing there 24. So we needed to make sure it fit the theme of the park and didn't and kind of added to it rather than took away from our. And needed to make sure it worked for. The wide variety of people that will be passing by, so elderly young children, people that don't maybe don't speak English because it's right beside the train station. It's right beside the new V and a museum that's there. So a lot of tourists will be coming through this area and we had to basically make a game that encouraged people to play. With each other and with strangers. So a lot of the games involve like trying to communicate or working together with the people that you're you're on. If you're on the different podiums.
Ben
So there's two things you've mentioned in the last five or so minutes. I want to like pull out a bit more. One is around dynamic games and creating in a level playing field for all gamers and the others rank collaboration within gameplay. So let's start with dynamic gameplay. How have you approached that to design that in and and how do you adapt dynamic gameplay for each? And do you have it? And each game you've developed, or is it specific? Or around metrics like cystic fibrosis breathing exercises. But how have you designed in dynamic gameplay?
Jamie
So I think it's a, it's a really case by case thing for us and that with with Kate Brace for example, it really depended on doing a calibration at the start. So we were able to calibrate the game to them. So if they're having a bad day, we were able to adjust it. We thought that was really, really important so that people didn't feel disheartened, particularly if they were having a bad a bad day with their condition when they need to do their routine the most. We didn't want to make them to start with their other games, like our educational games. We we found that it. It does make a big difference if we're able to adjust the difficulty. Again. Purely do it so that we're not discouraging them if they get multiple wrong in a row, we we're actually giving them that helping hand of of kind of lowering the difficulty. We're working with the teachers to kind of highlight that they're they're. Rolling. But then with the the nest game, the play box or the the Wilson Park, there isn't as much, uh, dynamic difficulty. Just it didn't call for it as much. So it really depends on the game, but I I definitely think it's worth doing and worth considering depending on the project.
Ben
In that case, that's around the dynamic game play and the importance of calibration when it comes to things like collaborative gameplay. How have you worked that in and what prompted that approach to to collaborative gameplay?
Jamie
So I think 2, the two projects we've mentioned, the Cape, Cape Rees collaborative game time. Was really important now. I didn't mention this this earlier, but with cystic fibrosis part of it because it's a chronic lung condition and there's such a risk of cross infection, you can't actually meet people in person that have cystic fibrosis. So with other chronic conditions like cancer for example, you get these support groups forming to kind of help each other. We'll see if you don't get that as much because you can't meet in person. You you miss. A huge part of of. Of support and that is these communities that build, but with games you get online communities all the time through all the games. So we were really trying to think how do we bring that into our game and and how do we encourage people to see. They're not the only ones playing this game like there's leaderboards to. There's other people playing. And and with with Wilson Park, the the the whole game was built around the idea of collaborative play that we're trying to make the the park and more fun experience. We're trying to encourage people to come out and and visit. Work and and jump on a game randomly with strangers like you see if you see a a couple of buttons and A and a controller like you're going to, you're going to hop on with the flashing bright lights that we've got and and we wanted to just make it way more nice experience to visit the park, to the whole. The whole game is built around like. Watch out like trying to trying to help. Each other play the games. Aye.
Ben
So in that case, we've gone deeper into your games as conglomerate games. Have you seen the other games out there that you really like or approaches to game design and game mechanics that you've come across that you'd like to to describe and explain to our listeners?
Jamie
Yeah. So we we kind of touched on it earlier and the making games not for the the person with the condition, but maybe the the, the carers or the people around them. So I've seen a few games like that that have been really interesting like. Games that are almost empathy simulators, I would maybe call them where for example, you are playing through the experience of what it's like to have dyslexia and you're kind of making that game for a teacher or a parent of a kid. With dyslexia or. What it's like to have dementia, there's there's been quite a a few really interesting games in that space of of what it's like to have these different conditions. And that's for more focus on the carers or and the people surrounding the sufferers so that they can actually understand and empathise and and and. They know how they can help more. I think that's a really interesting space right now and personally the, the the idea of like playful cities, I I really like just smaller kind of integrations of games into everyday life, whether that's a silly game that you can play whilst waiting at a traffic light. I've seen musical stares that as you like. I've I've seen this everywhere and I where they're like pianos, piano keys. As you run up the stairs. And that's the that has a kind of dual impact of being fun and playful, but also encouraging people to take the stairs rather than an escape. There. I think that's really interesting. I've done a few kind of escape room like games where you're exploring a city for the first time that's been that's been a lot of fun. It's it's less digital and more. Well, I think there's both. But the one that we did was way more paper driven. I really like that aspect of just making exploring a new city more fun and playful. Those are the kind of things I want to see more of just kind of incorporating games into all aspects. Of life. Uh, but I guess there's there's also the downside. And and the I'd say the thing I dislike about about what? What's kind of been happening is the the word gamification or similar are kind of being used as just buzzwords and that people are just kind of throwing them in, like, Oh yeah, we're doing gamification and it's just a quiz. Rather than the the the deeper stuff that I think that games are really good at achieving is just kind of being glossed over by ohh yeah we did a quiz. A timer like that's it.
Ben
In that case, where do you think the future of serious games and games for the health are going? What do you think next 5 to 10 years could look like?
Jamie
That's a good question. I think I mentioned the idea of, like, play playful cities. I think games are going to be more integrated everywhere. So that's classrooms, hospitals I I think. That's the the optimist of me. I just. I think it's kind of. Inevitable that it's going to be integrated everywhere. But also more in actual care plans within healthcare so that you're being prescribed gains particularly for things like mental health or physiotherapy. Where games can really have like a an impact, so more more in hospitals definitely. Particularly for. Things around elderly and ageing, I think it's quite obvious that games are going to be used more for for the kids kids side of things and the younger audiences to get them to adapt and do different healthcare related things. But we find a lot of people saying when we're Speaking of the healthcare in the elderly space like they don't play. Games. But if we keep that attitude, by the time the people that do play games get to that age, there's going to be. Nothing for them. So I think that there's definitely going to be a more a bigger push for games for the elderly and and games that that, that. That deal with ageing and the the problems associated with that.
Ben
The last question I want to go into, as you mentioned and gamification is a buzzword. Why do you think he's become such a buzzword? And how would you define good, good game design and implementing game mechanics to create change and behaviours versus slapping on a tick box of gamification?
Jamie
I I totally think there there is an answer for that. Unfortunately, I'm very agnostic term agnostic. I'd say in that when we talk about our work and I'm more than happy to say gamification, serious games, games for good, there's so so many different terms. I feel though that. Gamification in particular gets a bad rap. I think it's. Just unfortunately, how it goes with with different bigger organisations wanting to use that kind of terminology to to. Take that box. As you said, I've heard a great phrase. I can't remember where I heard it from, but that a lot of the the game, the gamification stuff is just. There's chocolate covered broccoli and that they're just taking something bad and boring and then throwing the word gamification of it. So I'm not really sure how to combat that other than trying to educate people more about the deeper, the deeper side of games. And gamification that there can be, it's not just a quiz, it's also learning about another culture through play or or doing a physio routine through through play. And it's not just the quiz you did at school.
Pete
I do wonder whether it's easier to see gamification in a good life when we're looking at health gamification, because it's obvious where the benefits are to the user and to the player, whereas I'd say like in a corporate when you put in a bit of gaming. Patient the benefits might be more for the corporate than than the player, depending on how it's been designed, I've seen.
Jamie
A few. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I think it maybe more the tracking side of things as well. For. The corporate being able to monitor unfortunately, but I think I think things like Strava in particular is kind of toeing the line. And I think it's a really. People using it as like this is gamification and I I think it does it really well, but I think people are taking the wrong things from it in that ohh you just need to have achievements and that's you tick that box. Rather, rather than the community and the all these other aspects, that kind of make it. A. Good a good example, at least about.
Pete
Yeah, my my favourite game within Strava is like using your run to draw a picture. That's much more creative and game like.
Jamie
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Ben
Game is fantastic having on health points today to discuss creating gains for policymakers rather than people living with health conditions and then creating game scenarios so policymakers can explore how their decisions and town planning. Approaches can influence eating habits, leading to real, real changes in policies, laws and town design. Working backwards from the problem and creating game mechanics through each step needed towards goals, so every player can solve the core problem that inspired that game design and finding the importance of player calibration to enable dynamic gameplay so that all players can play at a level that works for them and everyone can play on a level. Playing field and including collaboration, creating communities through games to maximise motivation and regular gameplay to create real world and real life impact. Thank you so much for your time today.
Jamie
No thanks for having me. And that was a great summary. I'll definitely have to have you. Write. Some of our our PR stuff in future.
Pete
Ben is our new AI. There you go.